New Campaign, April 21st

[john]

There will be a new SFB campaign starting April 21.

Link to version 8 rules;
homepage.mac.com/cheethorne/sfb/rulesv8.html

[cheethorne]

The most important thing to take away from the campaign rules is as follows:

* Each turn you generate CPV (the money of the campaign).
* You can spend this CPV to purchase new ships, build new bases, or integrate newly found resources (asteroid fields, new planets, etc.)
* You spend a significant amount of CPV to maintain your existing fleets.

* You use survey ships to explore territory and find new resources.
* You move your ships to seize the scarce resources found by other players, to claim provinces, and to destroy the fleets of other players.

* Through the actions of your fleets, by seizing enemy resources and destroying enemy bases, you earn victory points.
* The player with the highest victory points wins the game.

[ikefist]

Kev if u remember bring the frax stuff tonight would you please

[cheethorne]

Updated Campaign v8 rules with the following changes:

* Updated 1.3.3 - Capitals are defended by a Star Base, but are the only planet that can be protected by a Star Base.
* Updated 2.2.1 - Changed Production Schedule to lower the rate of production for light cruisers and destroyers.
* Added 2.2.3.3 - Ships can now be built with a large number of accessories to players don't have to coordinate building the accessories and the ship separately.
* Updated 2.4.9 - Added missing cost for Small Asteroids to list of accessories.
* Updated 3.5.6.1 - Tholians must purchase the web hexes that protect their bases and planets.
* Updated 6.8.17.2 - Tholian Pinwheels can only be formed before a battle when using the Hold or Active Defense missions and can be protected by small, relatively weak circular webs.
* Updated Appendix D - Added note concerning Home Galaxy versions of Neo-Tholians ships that are instead built with galactic technology and how the Neo-Tholian command modules can be placed on different ships.

Most of these changes deal with the Tholians, as there were several problems with how they formed their web defenses under previous campaign rules.

[cheethorne]

Updated rule v8 with the following changes:

* Added 2.1.4 - Players can place CPV into a Reserve for future use.
* Updated 2.2.1 - Changed Production Schedule to lower the rate of production for light cruisers and destroyers.
* Updated 3.1 - The Federation F-111 fighters becomes available at Y7, when Interceptors become available.
* Removed 5.4 - Players can no longer explore the off-map resource zone.
* Updated 6.3 - Sortie Groups can now consist of up to three squadrons of fighters (or equivalent) and updated the Blitzkrieg mission to refer to command points instead of command rating.
* Updated 8.2.7 - Captured planets no longer produce less CPV for the capturing player.

The biggest addition here is the creation of the CPV Reserve. Players no longer have to jump through hoops to save CPV from one turn to the next.

Also, the first version of the campaign forms is available on the web site. There are forms for economics, movement, ship and fleet information, and system defenses. Some of the forms are designed to give you some flexibility. For example, the movement form covers three pages. The first page covers three turns worth of movement, the second page covers two turns worth of movement, and the third page covers one turn worth of movement (for later in the campaign when you have lots of CU's moving around).

This is just the first version of the forms, so they can be changed based on problems or suggestions.

[ikefist]

Kevin quick question can a larger class ship act as a leader for smaller class ships like say a cruiser act as a leader for 2 destroyers?

[cheethorne]

Yes, a larger ship can act as a leader for a squadron, but your specific example would not work. Larger ships can only act as a squadron leader for ships one size smaller.

Heavy Cruiser -> Light Cruisers / War Cruisers / Heavy War Destroyers
Light Cruisers / War Cruisers / Heavy War Destroyers -> Destroyers / War Destroyers
Destroyers / War Destroyers -> Frigates
Frigates -> Police Ships

The only things allowed in a squadron are combat variants for a given class. Other ship types, such as small auxiliary freighters or monitors cannot be in combat squadrons like these. Heavy Battle Cruisers, Dreadnoughts, and Battleships cannot lead squadrons. Battle Cruisers cannot lead squadrons of Heavy Cruisers.

[cheethorne]

You also have to be careful about what counts as a combat variant and what doesn't. Certain types of ships cannot be in a squadron because of the type of ship they are, while other ships are excluded only if they don't have heavy weapons.

Scouts, Commando Ships, Minesweepers, Carriers, Escorts, Survey Ships, Tugs / LLTs without battle pods, PFTs without heavy weapons, and other support ships are not "combat variants" and cannot be the leader of a squadron or a part of it.

Also, when you have a larger ship leading a group of smaller ships, the larger ship cannot already be a command version. So, for example, a heavy cruiser could be the leader of a squadron of two light cruisers, but a command cruiser could not.

[ikefist]

Ok thank i was planning on haveing destroyes lead m y frigates is all so i am very happy with that for a answer it should work out fine

[cheethorne]

Just don't forget that your heavy destroyers are actually war cruisers, not regular destroyers. Basically, only destroyers that are size-4 and are not heavy war destroyers (whatever the Gorns called them) can lead a squadron of frigates.

[cheethorne]

Updated rule v8 with the following changes:


* Updated 2.1.3 - Clarified that in order to claim a province it must be fully explored AND you must have a supply point in it.
* Updated 2.1.4 - Clarified that odd amounts of CPV can be placed in the CPV Reserve.
* Updated 2.1.5 - As x-ship maintenance is paid in XPV, the amount of XPV each player produces was increased.
* Updated 2.2.1 - Changed Production Schedule to lower the rate of production for light cruisers and destroyers in the later years when Heavy War Destroyers become available.
* Updated 6.3 - Legal fleet status is checked when a mission is declared for a fleet, not before a battle begins.
* Updated 6.8.6 - Expanded the definition of a squadron to include three types: Combat Squadrons, Carrier Groups, and Commando Groups.

[cheethorne]

For those that may not have realized, the starting ship limitation includes the following lines:
* Defense Ships: 4
* Auxiliary Ships: 6

Under 2.2.1 - Production Schedule, the definition for what counts as a defense ship is listed. It says that Defense ships are local defense ships, police ships, and auxiliary ships.

Two notes about this. First, Monitors should also be listed as Defense ships (I'll make that change in the next rules v8 update) and second, because auxiliary ships is also given its own restriction, you could build 10 auxiliary ships if you wanted to (4 as defense ships and the other 6 counting against the "auxiliary" ship limit, but you can't build more than 4 police ships or 4 local defense cruisers, or whatever.

If, like the Gorn, your police ships also count as frigates, you could start with up to 14 police ships if you wanted (4 from defense and 10 from frigate). Congrats to you.

[cheethorne]

Another update to the website. I've added Kirk and Jarrid's information to the maps and the hex info data. Also, v8 of the rules have been updated with the following changes:

* Updated 2.1.3 - Clarified that in order to claim a province it must be fully explored AND you must have a supply point in it.
* Updated 2.1.4 - Clarified that odd amounts of CPV can be placed in the CPV Reserve.
* Updated 2.1.5 - As x-ship maintenance is paid in XPV, the amount of XPV each player produces was increased.
* Updated 2.2.1 - Changed Production Schedule to lower the rate of production for light cruisers and destroyers in the later years when Heavy War Destroyers become available.

* Updated 3.4.1 - Players can control more survey ships per planet in later turns.
* Updated 3.5.3 - Cleaned up the wording of what happens when a system or base is blockaded.

* Chart 5.2.2 - The shift produced by exploration freighters is reduced and eventually eliminated in later turns.

* Updated 6.3 - Legal fleet status is checked when a mission is declared for a fleet, not before a battle begins.
* Updated 6.8.6 - Expanded the definition of a squadron to include three types: Combat Squadrons, Carrier Groups, and Commando Groups.

* Updated Appendix D - Added note about how special Federation fighters can be deployed and how the Klingon LD5 Light Cruiser is treated. Added additional details on the WYN.

All of the changes are wording clarifications, small organizational changes (like the new definitions for squadrons and when legal fleet status is checked), or changes that take effect later in the game (like XPV production and additional survey ships).

[cheethorne]

Updated the website:
homepage.mac.com/cheethorne/sfb/

* Turn 3 results are available for all players.

Rules v8:
* Updated 3.1 - Players can form Battle Groups starting in Y6 (turn 16).
* Added 6.8.6.4 - Players can form Battle Groups to reduce the command point cost of a number of ships in the same fleet.

With Battle Groups, in exchange for only using the most basic versions of ships, you can include six ships in your fleet for one less command point each. This means that you could fly a group of six frigates with no leader variants at a cost of only 24 command points (6*5 -6 = 24) instead of 30. This gives players a viable option to use instead of basing fleets on carriers and other attrition units.

[ikefist]

6.8.6.4 - BATTLE GROUPS
Battle Groups consist of six ships operating together as a single unit with a reduced command point cost.
The command point cost of each ship in a Battle Group is reduced by one.
6.8.6.4.1
A Battle Group must have exactly six ships, at most three of which can be size-3 and the remaining ships are size-4.
The only size-3 ships allowed in a Battle Group are Light Cruisers, War Cruisers, and Local Defense Cruisers.
Only the following types of ships can be part of a Battle Group: base-class ships, Scouts, Commando Ships, Drone Bombardment ships, and Penal ships.
A Klingon D5G could be part of a Battle Group if it is not carrying a pod.
Heavy War Destroyers, Romulan BattleHawks, and Klingon F6 Battle Frigates can be in a Battle Group, but count against the size-3 ship limit.
Warp-capable booms and saucer sections can be part of a Battle Group, with the exception of the Klingon Battleship booms and the Federation Battleship saucer section.
6.8.6.4.2
A fleet can only have one Battle Group and the ships in a Battle Group cannot be in any other squadrons.
The flagship of a fleet and the ship in the free scout slot cannot be part of a Battle Group.
The following units cannot be part of a battle group: Bases, Fast Ships, True Carriers, PF Tenders, Auxiliaries, Civiliab Ships, Police Ships, Survey Ships, Minesweepers, Maulers, Tugs, any ship carrying a tug pod, SFG ships, sublight ships, Escorts, Command / Leader ships, Romulan War Eagles (and variants), and Klingon D6 (and variants).



I have a few questions about this
1. does the no leader be part of it mean that they can not be organized in a pack such as one destroyer leader leading 2 destroyers

2. Now with that said does the cost of the ships on same class size go up for for each model the same class like the fiirst desroyer is 6 -1 =5 second one 6 next one 7 if so then the battle group is pointless i need some serious clarification on this