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Post by cheethorne on Jan 11, 2010 10:24:11 GMT -4
As for the battle with Jason:
Andro Fleet: Imposer CA (IMP), Intruder CA (INT), Mamba Lg-Sat (MAM), Cobra Md-Sat (COB), Courier Scout Sm-Sat (COU), possibly one other Sm-Sat ship, but it never left the hanger, if it was in the battle.
Fed Fleet: DNL, 2x Fast NCA (NCF), Fast CA Scout (CFS), Fast CW (NFL), Fast DD (DDF), 2x Stinger-2's.
Turn 1, we started on opposite corners, me going 27 and Jason splitting his forces between 24 for his ships and 14 for his heavy cruiser scout. Right away, Jason launched a large number of scatter packs, which cracked and filled the board with ~48 speed 32 drones, that raced towards me.
We continued to close, but then, as I got near the edge of the F sector, I transported some T-Bombs and turned upwards to the top of the map (direction A). Jason side-slipped towards the top of the map, but kept moving in direction C.
As we closed, I transported two Cobra destroyers on the far side of my mini-minefield and they closed with the back ranks of his fleet (and towards his scout). One cobra was revealed to be a pseudo satellite ship when it was blown up by the stinger fighters (it blows up after taking 11 points of damage, but until then it looks like a Cobra Destroyer with a max speed of 10). The cobra destroyer took some hits, damaged the #2 shield of an NCF and took out the ECM drone of the NLF (important for later).
At this point, it should be noted that for EW values, my IMP, INT, and MAM had 1 ECM and 5 ECCM, and Jason's fleet had maximum ECM with 6 on the NLF (because it had a destroyed ECM drone), 9 on the DDF, and 12 on the DNL and both NCFs.
The mini-minefield that I laid ended up not exploding as the drones passed through hit it and I turned to direction B. I fired a few heavy weapons on the NLF, nearly taking down the front shield (it had 5 or so boxes left). My IMP then took a few drone hits on its front and back panels and was fired at by the DDF, doing negligible damage and missing with both photons. The DDF fired because it was the closest of Jason's fleet (which was pretty spread out).
An impulse or two later, I then fired my remaining arcing heavy weapons at the NLF, which also went through the forward shield and did about 50 internals, gutting the ship of all but 3 phaser-1's (I took out its 2 photons), all weapons were unfired. An impulse or two later, Jason fired about 20 phaser-1's from his ships at the IMP, which had gone to 12 ECM (including six from the Courier scout). Jason still had no ECCM, so the phaser fire did about 20 points of damage in total and even then it was split on the front and back panels of the IMP. I used my disdevs to push his NCFs around (one moved further away and the other moved an insignificant amount) and I placed my Cobra DD in range of my transporters on impulse 1 of turn 1 (so it wouldn't be fired at by the stinger's or anything else).
We called the battle at that time and the result of our "called" action was that Jason's fleet was nearly destroyed and I lost my Courier scout. Jason left with his fast destroyer and his admiral, but he lost his light dreadnought, a legendary captain, and a legendary weapons officer.
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Post by ikefist on Jan 12, 2010 9:54:37 GMT -4
WOW lol omg you total owned him anyway i might not be able to make it tonight and if you need me to keep making a ship for you i will for the turns that pass and i ahve every intention to pull my fleets of jason primary and pull back i will call john and let him know my plans basically
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Post by john on Jan 13, 2010 12:44:45 GMT -4
An update for Andrew; we processed two turns (15 &16). Kirk and I continued our exploration, a few trade routes and colonies were made, I moved a fleet down to where Kevin was pinning Jason and Chris. Kirk and I also moved a fleet down to a hex where Kevin was pinning another fleet of Chris', it is a Nebula hex. At least 2 of Kevin's DNs have been uncovered and we're looking at a majority of his strength being in or near those two hexes. 2 Battles between Chris and Kevin, Kevin want to do them next week, having two players sub in on the secondary battle.
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Post by cheethorne on Jan 15, 2010 16:00:31 GMT -4
I've updated the website with some changes: homepage.mac.com/cheethorne/sfb/Main Page - Campaign 9: * Added turn 16 results for Campaign 9. Notes: I've added turn 16 results except for three things that are missing: CU locations (haven't done it yet), Andrew's exploration and John claimed a second province, but I'm not sure which one is was. John also said he would send me a list of where he has bases and I'll add them to the map. I'd like everyone else to do that to.
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Post by cheethorne on Feb 19, 2010 13:50:23 GMT -4
I've updated the website with some changes: homepage.mac.com/cheethorne/sfb/Main Page - Campaign 9: * Added turn 17 results for Campaign 9. Notes: I've added turn 17 results for everything except CU locations. That is coming with my next update, which will mostly be for the v10 rules. I also added the missing information for turn 16, which included an extra victory point for me after I destroyed Chris's DN in 1821. The victory point total will likely change again after all of the battles for turn 17 finish. Main Page - Racial Charts and Tables: * Reclassified Romulan-Kestrel KFR as a Heavy War Destroyer. Notes: As part of the type clean-up that I am doing, the Romulan KFR is following the Klingon F6 and moving to the HDW category. I don't think anyone will mind terribly.
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Post by john on Feb 20, 2010 10:19:11 GMT -4
The poor F6, you keep changing it on me... it started out as a Frigate (in name anyways) but we knew it was a destroyer and then we reclassified it as a War Destroyer and now it's a Heavy War Destroyer? Seem strange, it's not that cool of a ship...
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Post by cheethorne on Feb 21, 2010 1:23:27 GMT -4
Not cool? It has two more either disruptors or drone racks over the F5W and five more power than the F5W. That sounds pretty cool to me.
The main issue is the movement cost: FF: 1/3 FH: 1/2 DD: 1/2 DW: 1/2 HDW: 2/3 CL: 2/3 CW: 2/3 CA: 1 BCH: 1 DN: 3/2 BB: 2/1
By this standard, the F6 and some of the special Federation heavy destroyers get reclassified as Heavy War Destroyers. Just the way it goes. Doesn't really mean much for the current campaign, but it will make things easier for future campaigns.
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Post by john on Feb 22, 2010 10:54:50 GMT -4
Don't know that I agree with the reasoning, especially when we've already established that the F5s are somewhere between a frigate and a destroyer... I mean you keep picking on specific Klingon units (or so it seems) yet the various special races you've played in a couple of the campaigns are almost always way more powerful then anything I can throw down... why are you present ships not all more expensive to put in fleet then their general band classification?
And I could go on bitching at great length about this sort of ruling but I won't other than to say that the F6 does not seem to be a HDW, no where near as useful and almost every race has a 'broken' ship or two, are we going to reclassify those as well?
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Post by cheethorne on Feb 22, 2010 11:37:27 GMT -4
Don't know that I agree with the reasoning, especially when we've already established that the F5s are somewhere between a frigate and a destroyer... I pick on the Klingons the most because their ships are so poorly named. They have ships called "escorts" and "battle escorts" and "frigates" and "battle frigates" but are actually not any of those things. Nearly every other race, even the crazy ones, use a very standardized approach with their ships. Using the warp cost is a better approximation than the one I have been using before, which could lead to bad or over-matched results as we have seen before, like where a DN-led fleet is incredible, but only one player / race has the ability to build a DN in a single turn (the Romulan VUL). yet the various special races you've played in a couple of the campaigns are almost always way more powerful then anything I can throw down... I'm not really sure about that as most of the differences make sense when you look at individual ship strength. For example, the Jindarian CA costs 180 points, so it makes sense that it can kick the crap out of a Klingon D7 that costs only 150 points. I also really wouldn't agree that my Cobra at 60 points is better than you F5 at 81 points. the F6 does not seem to be a HDW, no where near as useful It is not a modular HDW and it would never be called an HDW in the Star Fleet Universe, but it has a 2/3 movement cost, which no other war destroyer has except the Federation HDH and HDD. Even in F&E, the ship is given a far harsher build restriction than the F5W. In terms of our next campaign, the HDW costs the same to command as a DW, the only difference is that the F6 requires you to research a special project before it can be built (like the NCAs). I think this is reasonable, but I can be flexible on this point as well. As move develop racial special projects, maybe a separate project for the Klingon F6 would make sense, who knows. My biggest concern are for races that don't have two ships in the DD / DW and the CL / CW classes. It is sometimes really hard to figure out when a ship should be classed as one or the other and unlike the DW / HDW difference, that decision can have big implications for fleet design. almost every race has a 'broken' ship or two, are we going to reclassify those as well? We most definitely should reclassify them. This is why the Federation HDH and HDD destroyers both moved up to HDW status as well. If you know of others, please let me know. The Gorn DDW is a prime example of this. As no one has expressed interest in play the Gorn for v10, I haven't done anything with the ship, but I would most certainly do something if someone did. Also on this point, this is why we removed people's ability to upgrade their ships (like Lyran DD to CW) except when that upgrade was part of a special project (like a Lyran CA to DN project). This would badly unbalance that race compared to races that couldn't do that since that race could have more heavier hulls than anyone else and we are trying to keep things more or less balanced. Ships or classes that are totally broken need to be carefully kept in check when running a campaign like ours.
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Post by john on Feb 22, 2010 12:11:07 GMT -4
Alright, so, as you mentioned above you're trying to balance the races, but this is not easily done... yet with the Klingons they have no light cruiser (or might as well not) and in one area where they have a better unit it requires a special project to bring that ship into the order of battle... That's not really a balance, in fact it further hampers and weakens a race that is typically one of the ones that has the best selection of ships and most flexibility with fleet design.
As it stands, I have my basic ships which are generally fairly crappy, especially on the DD and FF bands, no light cruiser, in order to get a D6 I have to sack a D7 build, I've got a drone upgrade to do and then have to do the HDW in order to get a unit that is clearly not an HDW. And yet, there is a ton of Klingon ships (penal and IS) that should allow some sort of production bonous on number of hulls vs quality of hulls.... it just seems like as the campaigns progress there is less and less reason to play Klingons.
If you are worried about production limits then go with the F6 as being a 'special' build, 1 in 3 DDs/DWs could be an F6... I think I mentioned this limitation before as something that should be applied to any of the races' more unusual ships...
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Post by cheethorne on Feb 22, 2010 13:49:35 GMT -4
Discussion with John continued in the campaign v10 thread.
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Post by cheethorne on Feb 24, 2010 14:43:19 GMT -4
First round of fighting between John and me in 1821 started at a fairly slow pace. We traded some shots on turn 1 and 2 without much effect. During these turns John fired a large number drones, including his heavy drone shots, but his shots were very spread out forcing me to use a large number of T-bombs and phasers to take them out. So far I haven't fired a single phaser at his ships.
On turn 3, I had positioned myself behind John's ships and hit his flagship, the DWC, with good hit from the TRHs, dealing 39 internals. Other than that, the rest of our ships have taken only shield / PA damage. Well, except for my Anaconda Scout, which has taken two points of leak damage. We didn't finish turn 3 before we stopped for the night.
We made a few mistakes in the rules last night, no real big issues though. I forgot the order of when sensor activity occurs more than once, but we also had a mistake with ECM drones. On turn 3, I used my Displacement Devices to move two of John's ships (his DWC and his DWD), those two ships kept the bonus from the ECM drone, but according to FD9.12, the ECM is only lent when the drone is in the same hex as its target (at least for ships, escorting drones is slightly different). Enither were really a deal in the end though.
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